St Louis, MO. They catch a bit but I hit it crispier. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? What bouncedoes is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. Odyssey Pro #1 black More is not always better, but I would expect nothing less from a fitter at Carls Golfland. No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? I am 2 handicap, playing Scottish Links golf, smooth tempo, 80-90mph, pretty straight flight, shallow divot. Are their ways to ensure a club wont break? But when I show them the results on golf radar, which can be as much as 5-to-10 yards more carry distance, they start to get it. Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. LOWER COG IN NEW IRONS REQUIRES LESS LOFT A LOT OF THE TIME TO GET THE SAME DISTANCE OF OLDER CLUBS WITH A HIGHER COG. It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. I've never had a sand wedge bent, I suppose that could be an issue but if you open the blade a bit the bounce comes back. I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. Your link has been automatically embedded. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. i dont need that. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. You cannot paste images directly. TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 Sure. Bravo, As a club fitter who deals with players that purchase equipment based on what their ego tells them they need verses the facts this is a breath of fresh air! And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? The so-called "standard" lie angles are 9 iron at 64* with a spacing of 1 deg between clubs. United States. In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! When looking for clubs that fit your game, a professional club fitter will look at these factors down below to determine what their lie angle should be: I know this concept can be confusing, especially if you have never been fit for golf clubs before. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Backups:Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. If you are taking big divots with a 2 iron you have some serious problems with your swing. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. Don't think you'd notice a difference of 2. FAQs with more loft than its designed for, so he cant go wrong by bending heads stronger. ENTER NOW! This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? Everyone tries to boast yardage, not consistency and accuracy. It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. Best Shaft For Wedges, Need A New Golf Glove? Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. Well driving iron to be exact. Machines that adjust for all hosel positions, such asMitchell Angle Machinesare accurate regardless of the offset or hosel design of the golf club. In turn creating around 12 more yds. How much of static bounce is positive at impact?..we have to start from a static bounce of MORE than the difference to have any, and 31* minus 20.2* = 10.8 static bounce is needed to get ZERO. We dive into a subject we get A LOT of questions about, bending your clubs properly. The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. This will reduce any penalty shots and subsequently the number of doubles-or-worse in your round. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. You must log in or register to reply here. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood Idk CG specifics on those models, but I have seen similar results with I20, and G25. Sounds like it's a long iron. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. Will it affect offset? Might actually help on hard ground. So if you have the time, watch this cool video that I really like explaining how important lie angle is for your golf game: Having and knowing the correct lie angle of your clubs will be a game changer, I promise! Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? You must log in or register to reply here. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. The most common complaint I hear from golfers looking for new irons is that all the lofts are jacked strong. If someone is playing an iron set, for instance, from the late 1990s or earlier they will most likely find their irons to be 2-to-3 degrees weaker than todays game-improvement irons, and even some players irons. Odyssey #7 Tank, I got a set of Titleist 716 cb that are bent 2 degrees strong (they end up being 1 Degree weaker than my old z745 I believe). Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid Editors note: This article is in collaboration with Shot Scope. people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. The industry is run by marketing divisions, who are responsible for stronger lofted irons, in the mistaken belief that lower loft equals more distance. Each one of those sees him rightly disputing the market number one, but Im not sure I can get involved at around 20-25-to-one with any of the favourites, even if they hold excellent claims. Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Like you said, it will change the bounce but other than that, it wont change much and shouldnt effect the playability of the club unless you are really steep and need the bounce. I was wondering if bending my irons 1 to 2 degrees strong at a golf shop will change the playability of the 712 AP2s. And the opposite is true as the speed drops. GolfWRX_Official Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. Bomb and gouge. Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. I did this several years ago and it ended up being quite expensive, so dont be me and order your custom set all at once! With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me. I truly wish customers would do their do diligence before getting fit. 10.5 set at small - I did this with my current set and the results are great. Paste as plain text instead, ENTER NOW! Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. The reason this happens has to do with an iron's center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an iron's COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. I meant decrease loft and make stronger. You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights. My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. While you might prefer the overlap, interlock or full-finger style, the hold on the golf club is pretty much the same the upper portion of the grip has to be under the pad of the upper hand and held more in the fingers than the palm of both hands. In between, the Aussie came home fast to be 18th in Cam Smiths Australian PGA, and although he missed the cut at his home Open, sat in the top-10 after an opening 65. This feels like an anyone week the back-nine on Sunday could be fun. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. You cannot paste images directly. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. Your email address will not be published. Thank you for such an eye opening article. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By What to consider when bending golf clubs. To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. Espana. In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. Another point regarding GI/SGI clubs that I would love to see a fitter touch on is shaft length. If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? Hope I did not complicate this any and maybe helped you, Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*--- Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. Good question. It can be re-bent without any adverse effect on it. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. The idea of one ideal spin rate and launch angle for each iron doesnt really make sense to me. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. Production Manager Wesley Turner: Five Years in the Bag. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. Your previous content has been restored. For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. The market is fascinating this week, with world number 376 Andrew Novak leading the field. It just depends. Thanks for everybody for your help! pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. Step 3. All rights reserved. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. Or, is the bounce all the same? I reckon for every 1 degree off it takes about 250 off the spin. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. I would advise you to not try it yourself unless you have experience in doing so professionally. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. If so why mess with perfection. Justin Rose posts mysterious custom JR irons on Instagram. Some get more spin, some less. Putters have the least loft, usually from 2 to 4 degrees. If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. 759 Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. I guess Ill need to have my next irons bent weaker leaving some marks on the blade and hosel. One good example comes to mind. Pasted as rich text. traditional lofts ftw (let the technology be what determines added length/distance, not loft changes). I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125 Add loft for distance?????? Bending the loft is another story. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. I always found it a bit strange that I could be 20-40 yards ahead of some friends yet hit the same distance with mid to short irons. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Brilliant information ! Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour.